Forum Ground Rules

[RobotLady]

Hi All,

It seems there is a lot of negative energy floating around in this forum.  What can we do to make this forum more positive?  Make some ground rules?

What do you want to see in this forum?  Do you think this forum is the best place for complaints or should complaints be handled differently?   Should we make some forum ground rules to keep this forum more fun, positive and useful for problem solving?

Looking forward to hearing your inputs.

Robotlady

[toolbelt]

I think the very, very, very last thing you want to do is set a bunch of rules.  KA may not be telling you they are watching/reading this forum, but they are.  They also know they have got to do something about it or loose their business.  Even though we all complain we are still here so hang in there with us.

[jzawacki]

Not to mention, creating rules to reduce the ability to speak freely will just chase users to another forum without such rules.

[RobotLady]

Many forums have ground rules such as no profanity.  I don't think it is unreasonable to have some ground rules.  It's better than posts being removed without the cause being published.  I would rather get everyone's inputs on the ground rules than to make them up myself.  So, if you want to help me set some reasonable ground rules I welcome your participation.

[jzawacki]

If I were you, these are the rules I would set:

- No rude/insulting posts or personal attacks
- No advertising, spamming, or trolling
- No profane language
- No adult content (including links)
- No illegal content (including links)

[Jerry]

I always felt forums are the best place to discuss problems with products and complaints. Making ground rules will just irritate people more and make things worse. Doing this will make you look like you are trying to cover up the issues with these mowers and also trying to keep unhappy people from hurting your sales.

[RobotLady]

jzawacki, thanks for the inputs, those are definitely on the right track.  I can't see why anyone would disagree with them.

I still want some way people can air their legitimate complaints without ranting.  At some point it's like beating a dead horse.  Example, we have lots of complaints about motors.   New, better motors are now available via the chassis upgrade and for folks who don't want to upgrade their chassis we are starting a motor repair service to keep the cost down. 

I don't have the time to respond to every post in the forum.  I would not be able to provide good service to my customers if I did!  So if you don't want "a bunch of rules", tell me how to field legitimate complaints without accepting all of the ranting.  I need a solution...

[toolbelt]

In  addition to jzawacki's rules how about a new 'Rant' Subject that is pinned whereby members can rant to their hearts content.  It will remain for 2 weeks then be auto removed.

Senseless rants on the other subjects will be auto removed within 1 business day.

[jzawacki]

I don't have the time to respond to every post in the forum.  I would not be able to provide good service to my customers if I did!  So if you don't want "a bunch of rules", tell me how to field legitimate complaints without accepting all of the ranting.  I need a solution...

If you feel that you need to respond to posts on the forum, we are abusing the forum.  My understanding when "nudged" to move from the other forum was that this would be another "open" forum.  But, if you feel you need to respond, it would lead me to believe that you feel like we are all your customers and that you need to support us all.  That should not be the case.

To field legitimate complaints, your customers shouldn't be using the forums.  They should be calling or e-mailing you directly.  Normally, forums are open discussion mediums used for "the people" to support "the people".  Not for a company to support "the people".  Solutions found in the forums are normally going to go outside what a company such as KA or yourself are willing to provide. 

Along with that, you are not KA, you are a reseller.  I'm pretty sure you can ask everyone with a rant, and the rant won't be about Paradise Robotics.  If they were, that should be what you focus on.  We all know that you can't control what KA chooses to do.  We also know that KA takes the time to read forums (be it this one, or others, I don't know), and they should. 

I also agree that ranting about the same thing over and over does no good.  But, to be honest, a recall never even crossed my mind till someone else mentioned it.  Would that be the correct solution for KA?  I don't know.  But, if it were as simple as just a handful of problem individuals/bots as we are to believe, wouldn't it make 100% sense for KA to pony up a replacement BEFORE customers felt it was time to do something about their disappointment over their investment?

I commend you on taking on the task of trying to provide a motor rebuild service.  But honestly, it shouldn't be needed.

[shep874]

Hi All,

It seems there is a lot of negative energy floating around in this forum.  What can we do to make this forum more positive?  Make some ground rules?

What do you want to see in this forum?  Do you think this forum is the best place for complaints or should complaints be handled differently?   Should we make some forum ground rules to keep this forum more fun, positive and useful for problem solving?

Looking forward to hearing your inputs.

Robotlady

Hi all, So let all start being positive. 

Lets start by hearing from Kyodo and Zucchetti. 
They should make a statement as to the life expectancy of the bott.
They should make a statement as to the life expectancy of the batteries.
They should clear any false statements in dealer adds. as these statements are relied on by the consumer to make buying decisions 
If there are only a few of us that are experiencing problems with their bott, take care of them.

I will guarantee that you will hear glowing reports of how well they were taken care of.

Did you know that the Rolls Royce has no break downs.
They go to the extreme to take care of any problems..

Buttered Rolls
Legend: Rolls-Royce dispatches a special mechanic to aid a straned motorist, then after wards disavows the incident, claiming "Our cars never  break down."
Example: [eert, 1956]
British pride in native products has not dimmed.
A London plutocrat was driving his fine new Rolls-Royce over the Alps when he heard a disquieting "twang." His front spring had broken.
He called the Rolls plant in London by long distance, and, in what seemed like no time flat, three gentlemen arrived by plane with a new spring - and off went the plutocrat on his interrupted jaunt.
Now comes the really interesting part of the story. After six months the plutocrat had received no bill from the Rolls people. Finally he appeared at the plant in person and asked that the records be checked for "the repair of a broken spring in Switzerland." After a brief delay the manager of the plant appeared in person, gazed at him rather reproachfully, and announced, "There must be some mistake, sir. There is no such thing as a broken spring on a RollsRoyce."

I don't know if the above is true or not. but I did own a 1933 Rolls Royce at one time and I can attest to quality of them..

If they receive e-mails or letters they should respond within a reasonable time.  I am still waiting for a response.
They should not fix problems by selling upgrades. Do a recall.. 
Had I not had a lot of  problems the very first season and again this season, I would be very happy and not have to even think about an upgrade.

I do not think these are unreasonable expectations or request.

I would like to make it clear that any postings that I have made have been to inform others and to hopefully get Kyodo and Zucchetti to make some changes.  I am blunt and not very diplomatic but I tell it like it is.  I have made no statement with the intent to destroy anyone or any business. 
 
So enough. The other day i did post on the wire/sod stapler. and I would like others to share on products (pertaining to the mower) they may have found that would make all of are lives better.

We could use tips on trouble shooting, maintance, decorating your Bott. Some one fill me and others in on lithium batteries.

I just replaced batteries and got the same results (short runs) as the reason I got new ones.  I found out that the Bump/charge switch has a micro in it that is most likely bad..  KA is sending two new switches and I will let you know if indeed the problem is solved. Had I known this i could have saved $740.

I would like to know how to test the lithium battery.  I would like to know how to best care and how to extend the life of the lithium.

Let all be careful that if you give information. That it is correct.  You hi tech guy and gals Present your posting so that people like me will be able to follow along.

I personally think complains are best handled by private letter of phone call.  How ever when companies fail to reply the forum and legal means is the only thing left to the consumer.

So I suggest that as soon as we hear and or see a response from Zucchetti  and Kyodo that all complaints on this forum be deleted and we get on with useful things to enjoy in life..  Best to all

[RobotLady]

To field legitimate complaints, your customers shouldn't be using the forums.  They should be calling or e-mailing you directly.

I agree.  The direct approach will always be the most effective method.  If you purchased your Lawnbott from another dealer, but want better support, we will help you; not necessarily for free, though.  We are a business and each problem has its own degree of difficulty, so we have to use our judgement on that.

If someone wants to start a topic on suggestions for KA, I think it's a great idea.  Brainstorm a bunch of suggestions and I will pass it to them so you will know the suggestions were reviewed.  People should not assume KA reads the forum.  They are busy people.  They probably look at it, but do you really think they read pages and pages of information?  I doubt it.  I'd like to help everyone make sure they are heard by KA.  I cannot guarantee a response, but at least you will know you were heard.

Another thing I've seen is off-topic posts that are really just rants and digs at KA or Zucchetti.  I think these things detract from what people are trying to solve and are unlikely to get resolved.  Can I ask regular participants to monitor the off-topic posts politely?  Not "forum police", but just gently say "Can you create a new topic on this?" so the discussion can stay focused on the problem that was originally posted.

With your help, we can make the forum much more enjoyable for everyone.  If everyone pitches in, it won't take much of my time to make it a nice place to be and I can still support my customers.

What about toolbelt's suggestion?  Should we have a rant topic, or should we change it to "Suggestions for KA"?  Seems like people could blow off some steam there, what do you think?

[prb238]

Here is my 2-cents:

I think the following are good ground rules to follow.  No one likes a public forum that has too many rules, but these rules suggested below are ones that no one should have a problem with.

- No rude/insulting posts or personal attacks
- No advertising, spamming, or trolling
- No profane language
- No adult content (including links)
- No illegal content (including links)

Before I continue, I am not accusing any person on this board or any other board of being negative or ranting, in fact I haven't even read the post or posts that started this whole topic and I really don't care to.  I am just simply offering my opinions and you can agree or disagree with them because I know everyone has different views.

- For  the issues I have had, Paradise Robotics and KA have always been very responsive and helpful - most of my issues have been resolved by replacing parts under warranty. I have owned my robot for 4 years now (still on a 3200) and I just now had my first purchase I had to make out of warranty - my battery died a couple of weeks ago.  If you think about how long we expect Lithium Ion batteries to last - compare a laptop battery to the Lawnbott battery.  The Lawnbott battery in my experience has far outperformed the batteries that I have had on all laptops I have used over the past few years.  And, with the robot you are utilizing the battery more rigorously with a constant depletion/charge going on multiple times per day.  I would typically expect a normal laptop battery under normal use to last about 3 years.  I got 3.8 years of use out of the robot battery so I was not surprised when it went bad.
- In my opinion, a forum like this is not the best place to rant about issues or performance problems.  If people have issues, ask about other peoples' experiences to find out whether your issue is similar or unique and if you have a problem with something, call KA or Zuchetti directly or ask RobotLady for help with the issue
- I know there is some logic to getting enough people to complain about an issue and maybe the company will do something about it, however, I doubt that KA or Zuchetti make decisions based on what people are saying on the boards.  They probably take stock in issues that have been called in, emailed in, and dealt with from a warranty perspective.
- I know that writing something negative or "ranting" about something provides the person who wrote it some satisfaction because they "got it off their chest".  But it doesnt really help anyone else - in fact all it does is get other people in a negative frame of mind - remember that negativity is the most contagious emotion of all.

[RobotLady]

All, thank you for the excellent discussion and suggestions.  Here is my proposal for our pinned Forum Rules and Guidelines, please give your feedback.  I think this meets the need without creating a lot of rules.

Our Vision
----------
We are a forum by the people and for the people.  We encourage open and helpful discussion.  We discourage ranting and complaints that should be directed elsewhere.

Forum Rules and Guidelines
--------------------------

These are the things that will not be tolerated.  Any posts along these lines will be removed:

- Rude/insulting posts or personal attacks
- Advertising, spamming, or trolling
- Profane language
- Adult content (including links)
- Illegal content (including links)

We want to have a positive environment in which everyone can feel comfortable sharing their views.  This is not to be misinterpreted to mean negative views are not desired.  Quite the contrary.  All views are welcome.  However, we discourage overly negative and repetitive posts that have no purpose except to blow off steam. 

We will not remove these rant posts, but every forum member reserves the right to send a personal message to the poster to respectfully request that they direct their comments to the appropriate person or organization.  If the poster refuses and continues to repeat the negative comments (we call them rants), anyone who objects may open a “Solutions” topic.  All participants are invited  brainstorm solutions to the ranter(s)' problem(s).  Productive and helpful solutions may be passed on to the appropriate organization and endorsed by the forum owners.  At this time, participants may feel the matter is closed. If the topic is brought up again, any member may send the poster a link to the solutions thread to discourage continued ranting.

In addition, we desire that as much as is practical, threads stay on topic.  Every participant may at any time request and/or start a new topic if a thread goes off track.  This way valuable information receives the visibility it deserves.  Requests may be posted publicly or privately, but please direct them to the participants who are off topic and of course, in a respectful way.

With your help, this forum can become the best it can be.  Thank you for your cooperation and support.

RobotLady