Motor Repairs and Parts

[Bill S]

When I purchased my Lawnbott in 2007, the website (not Paradise Robotics) stated the unit will  run 8-10 years before needing part replacement, except the blade and battery.  I am dissatified that it is not true.  All of the wheel and blade motors have been replaced under warranty at least twice.  Yes, I at least happy there is a two year warranty, but wish it was not needed.

My request is to have a vendor offer replacement parts for the DIY owner with intermediate repair skills.  My wheel motor problem is actually a gearbox issue.  The sun gear on the outer planet carrier wears out to the point.  It is easy to replace this part, but I contacted IMS gears division and the average person can not purchase these individual parts for reasonable cost. They need a minimum order quantity.

Also, the other site has a member posting a video on how to replace the blade motor brushes. It does not look too difficult. I did receive a different motor under warranty in October 2009.  Maybe planned part replacement would keep these running economically.

Spending $1000 for the new setup is too much for me.  I would like a cost effective solution for ownership.  And buying complete motors are very expensive too.

[RoyMercer]

I 2nd that!!

You should be able to (I will let them comment on that) purchase the brushes from Paradise Robotics. However, if the commutator is not properly surfaced, the new Brushes will not last long and the quicker the commutator will wear out. I think Paradise Robotics has a guy that can properly rebuild the blade motors at a fair cost. Not sure if they have started this yet or have any of the details yet. Regardless, if you replace the brushes the motor will last longer than if you hadn't. You might send them an email in case they do not have time to read all of the messages on the forum.

Zucchetti has new units with brushless motor's. But they are not available in the USA and I do not know what they cost. I am hoping they offer an upgrade. I would pay for an upgrade if I new I was getting brush-less longer lasting motors.  I would not mind if I had to purchase a motor every five years. Anything less should be covered by some kind of warranty.

[RobotLady]

It is unfortunate that there is a lot of misleading information out there.  To say that nothing will break in 8-10 years is downright wrong.  You will not find such a statement on our site.  I believe what the manufacturer means by the 8-10 year life is that replacement parts will be made available that long.  This is just my intuition of what is meant; they have never clarified their general statement of 8-10 year life.

It is frustrating that motors don't last longer and we do have plans to help with this.  For customers capable of changing motor parts themselves, we can sell you the parts over the phone any time, for the motor types that have replaceable parts. 

Also, we are working on a partnership arrangement with someone who knows motors much better than us.  When this is ready, you will be able to send in your out of warranty motor to be rebuilt.  We are still working out pricing and availability of this service, stay tuned...  We intend to keep the cost as low as possible so it will be worth your while to rebuild one or more times vs. replace your motors.

We also expect new Lawnbott model(s) that use brushless motors.  We do not know when these model(s) will become available.  We were told definitely not this year, but things can change.  Brushless motors are more reliable, but do expect to pay more...

Thanks for hanging in there even though your motors are not performing as well as you would like...

[RobotLady]

Bill S, one more point on your motors.  You probably have the old style chassis with the old style wheel motors.  The new chassis/wheel motors are definitely way better than the old ones.  Also, different yards can get different reliability results.  For example, larger yards with lots of hills will put more stress on the motors than smaller, flat yards.  

Upgrade kits are available that give you the new chassis, new wheels, all new motors (wheels & blade), new bump switches and a 2 year warranty on all of these parts for $795.  Note, spiked wheels are extra ($94.95).  The old spiked wheels don't work on the new wheels.  Note, it is only for these models: Professional, Deluxe, Evolution, LB2000, LB2100, LB3000, LB3200.  These were sold in 2008 and earlier.

We will be posting photos, etc. about this upgrade kit, soon.  If you are in a hurry and want one now, do not hesitate.  Supply is limited!!

[jzawacki]

Well, the only advice I can provide on this topic is that rebuilt motors are available.  If I remember correct, I purchased one (IMS motors for LB3200) for $110 and it included shipping.  I've also noticed that the gearbox should be tightened up regularly as well (or add lock tight).  My first warranty motor replacement was due to a loose gearbox causing the bot to error.

[shep874]

I to am disappointed in the reliability of the lawnbott. In my mind lawnbott is fast building a reputation of being to costly to own and unreliable. I expect normal ware and tare items to be at my expense but main components should last longer than one season of mowing. In fact my expectation for this amount of expenditure, would be that main components would last 5 to 7 years. Any thing less will be to costly for most and is total unacceptable. 

There are many things I do like about the lawnbott. trimming cut to nearly none.  No more clippings in my mulch and sticking to my lawn ornaments. 

I am confused on the best type of motor. Brush or Brush-less.  Which is best?

A word to Lawnbott. If you are going to stay in the USA market, you should give your dealers more and better support so that they can solve customers problems affordable and quickly. Work on easier and less labor intensive installation. Above all you had better build a reputation of an affordable reliable product.  I will tell you that at this moment I am not happy, as I wounder if I can afford a lawnbott when it no longer has a warranty. And I will tell you that I am keeping my eye out for a more reliable less costly to own Robot.

One other thing. I have information that the upgrade for the 3200 came out long before I made my purchase. So I am wondering as to why I was not given the latest  upgrade at time of purchase or given a discount amounting to the cost of upgrade?

[RobotLady]

It's funny, we also have many customers who have no problems at all.  Strange, isn't it?

Motors with brushes are not as reliable as motors without brushes.  The brushes can wear out.  But brushless motors cost more.  Nothing is free...

We are looking forward to making our motor rebuilding service available.  This will dramatically reduce maintenance costs.

[jzawacki]

Shep874, I'm not defending Zuchetti and/or KA, and agree with many of your comments.  At the same time, I'm guessing most that have read my posts on any of the forums can see that I'm fairly open minded and technical at the same time and more than willing to discuss issues from both sides.

I read your post and believe you have it about 85% correct.  My main reason for responding is the "If you are going to stay in the USA market, you should give your dealers more and better support so that they can solve customers problems affordable and quickly." comment.  Of all the companies I have worked with (not just in this field, but all products), KA has the best (I repeat, BEST!) customer service I have ever seen, period.  They ship fast, return calls fast (maybe not as fast as we would like, but compared to other companies, very fast!), cover the warranty as they say, etc.  That is why most of use say to call Vishal, not "Call customer service".

Now, I agree it is great that their customer service is awesome.. but at the same time, I'd rather it be crappy and I never needed to call them in the first place.  If you get what I mean.  So, it could be worse.  We could all be calling them and the customer service stink.  

As for labor intensive installation, they already filled that request.  It's called the LB1200.  No installation required.  Would I buy it?  Heck no, but part of having the features we like, it requires more extensive installation.

As for less costly alternatives.. I believe we are all watching for that.  But, till it happens.. what can you do.  Now, if you recently purchased an LB3200, I hope you got a pretty decent discount, as the LB3200 was replaced with the LB3210 and LB3250 a while ago, and is what you should have purchased.  The upgrade is just that.  convert an LB3200 to a LB3210.

I'm sure everyone with a Lawnbott product will agree that it feels like we purchased a "beta tester" membership when purchasing our bots.  Bit of a pricey membership fee, I will agree.  But, if we go off of what other resellers have stated, Zuchetti seems to blindly make changes without even telling them, so sometimes they'll learn of an issue when a customer complains because the "demo" they may have received of the new bot had changes made before the production run started shipping.


RobotLady: as for customers without issues.. I feel it is only a matter of time.  A perfect example would be between me and Oscar.  If the bot is going to fail after 500 hours of work, and he gets there in 3 weeks, and it takes me 2 years to hit 500 hours..  Oscar is going to have a lot more complaints than me.  But, eventually, when I get to the 500 hour mark, my motors are going to fail and I will begin complaining as well.  The only difference is that Oscar was under warranty and I wasn't.

[Bill S]

Robotlady,
I really appreciate the open dialog and information on your forum.  I believe in keeping things positive.  I am a engineer in the aerospace industry, so solving problems is what I do everyday. 

But honestly, if I was informed the major components would not last more than one mowing season, I would not have purchased this product.  This initial expense is high and I still need to have a real mower when it rains heavy in the spring and the grass grows quickly.  But being an engineer and having integrated industrial robots into work cell, I am very familiar the trial and tribulation associated with new technology.

At this time, the best solution is affordable spare parts to keep my investment earning its keep.

My wheel motors only need the outer planet carrier replaced as a wear item.  Making these available at a reasonable price would keep me satisfied.  They are easy to replace. (Maybe because I have the sealed lead acid batteries, the weight puts too much stress at the sun gear in the wheel motor gearbox.)

The blade motor issue sounds like it can be addressed by preventative maintenance; replacing the brushes before they are completely worn.  Again, I look forward to a DIY solution.

I would consider upgrading to the Li-ion battery, but again, if there isn't a cost effective way to to keep the mower operational, I will not throw good money after bad.

At the time of the recall, it was noted about 500 robot sold.  From a statistical analysis, I wonder how the population's data looks.  (yes I am working on my Black Belt).  What fails, frequency, etc.

I believe the best business model at this price point is to have the robot be durable enough to last about 5-7 years.  Anything less, might as well go with an inexpensive Chinese type product with throw away components which are replaceable and cheap.

[shep874]

jzawacki. I did not want to imply that the service is bad.  I have to agree that KA and Paradise Robotics are very good at giving service to there customer.  But I did not buy a Robot mower to have it serviced. I in fact want them to be the loneliness people in town. Two motors in one season and a board going bad is too much for me.  and now another board has gone out.. As I look on the net I see that motors are a big issue with LawnBott.

The only reason I wrote anything, is that I am hopeful that Zuchetti will read this as well as any and all complaints.  It  is the only way that they will know how and what to improve on.  I like my mower and when it is working, it does a great job.. But I am not going to endorse a product that I may not be able to afford when the warranty runs out. They should know that if there is one complaint, there are 4 more that never say anything.  They just don't use the product anymore and in fact bad mouth it. This is why many companies have gone out of business.

I have written to Zuchetti about the issues that I had previously stated in an earlier post. I will let you all know when and if I hear from them. 

Now let me give a little help..  Installations. For almost a year I watched and studied  how the wire installation was done.  Very Labor intensive.  And this is not good for anyone customer or installer.  Putting in pegs at 0.22 cent each, on your hands and knees, that break and come up in the spring is costly and very time consuming. 

A Better way... I bought a sod stapler for something like $350.00 The staples cost about .05 cents and are biodegradable.  It work best with two people, but can be done with one. Easy to do. Stretch your wire as far as you need to. Walk with stapler in hand (no bending) staple about every 12 inches.. closer in spots if you need to.  I did this last fall when I reworked some ares and will tell you that I had no problems none. Anyone wanting to use it can contact me or Kathy and we can work something out. If you are in town or close by come out to my place and visit.

[RobotLady]

All, I could not agree more with your comments.  I don't know where the "500 hours of service" failure rate comes from, this is probably a characterization of the infant failures.  Every product has a quantity of infant failures (units that fail after a short time).  Then there will be a long time of reliable performance, followed by the end of life failures.  Seems to happen with new cars.  You visit the dealer often in the beginning to get this or that fixed.  Then you see him on an infrequent basis and then (if you run it into the ground), everything starts breaking. 

I am sure 500 hours is not by design, that's why we have many customers who have never called.  Bill S, I also have an engineering background and familiar w/the belts, I couldn't agree more!   I would like to see Zucchetti  burn in the mowers before shipping to eliminate the infant failures.  Then out of the box people will get the long time of reliable performance.  I hope they learn (or maybe read this and take my advice)

[Gwynston]

I live in Ireland and have a pre-2008 model Evolution. My local supplier called by to mention the upgrade kit including new wheels etc., but more importantly, new design motors. All for 750-EUR (about $1000) which sounds a lot more than the cost in USA.
Is it worth it? I had one failed wheel motor replaced under warranty. I wonder if this upgrade is a good investment for future proofing my reliability?

[RobotLady]

Others can comment, too, but these new motors are WAY better than the old ones.  We have only seen brushes wear out with one customer so far.  Everyone else who has these new motors has not had a problem yet (upgrades and new units).  Note, it is only the wheel motors that are new.  The blade motor has not changed.

[jzawacki]

Shep874: I couldn't agree more, I just wanted to make sure they got the "thumbs up" for the service, even if the rest doesn't..

RobotLady: I'd have to go back and review the exact service hours, and keep in mind, this is LB3200 talk.  The reason I give that example was because of all the complaints Oscar was having.. And I was sitting back going "Works great for me".. if you want to take a walk down memory lane...  Then, I had one wheel motor fail under warranty.. Then, the next season, I had the other wheel motor fail, out of warranty. (that's another bad thing about X year warranty, the bot sits idle most of the year).  Then, the LB3500 came out.. and believe me, you don't even want to open that can of worms.

Now, I'm not saying the newest models aren't great.  I'm just saying, it's to soon to tell, and from my experience (only 3 or so years), everyone's yards are different and they all stress the bots in different ways.  Which is how I could be happy with the LB3200 and someone else not.  And again, if I had to make the choice to buy a lawnbott today, I'd do it all over again, even knowing about the motor failures because it really comes down to one thing.  How you value your time.  Having a family, I put a decent price on my time.  Add a chore that I extremely hate and you can double/triple that value.  Even if you factor in that I installed my parameter wire twice (pegged the first time, buried the second) I'd still spend the money again.. And if this next one days say something...  Even my wife agrees that it was worth the money.  Now you really know it's a good buy, as normally I am wasting money on "toys"..  I'll sum it up with this:

Cost of "toy" = $3,200
Installation = 4 hrs x 2
Making yard bot friendly = never ending
lawn always being perfect when the kids go out to play on the play set = priceless

[RobotLady]

Shep874: AMEN to that!