Paradise Robotics Forum
Robotic Lawnmowers => Lawnbott => Topic started by: evblazer on June 25, 2010, 12:42:27 PM
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A couple weeks ago I thought it was a fluke. My 3500 had the wire wrapped up and out of zone I figured somehow it _carried_ the zone with it. Then it was a few feet out of zone other other day with a cut wire.
Last night it had dug up the wire and cut it and I found it out of zone a few feet and in a slight hole spinning it's wheels digging and digging so I put it into the bay and turned it on. I forgot to put it on pause but well it should have just backed out and failed to synch if there was a 3ft gap in the wire right? Nope
This morning I went out and found it in the driveway. About 80ft on the other side of the workshop where the charging bay is flashing blackout. My first thought was some neighborkid grabbed it and tried it out then returned it when it wouldn't work and left it. Just out of curiosity I put it back into the zone and turned it on and walked over to check the break in the wire in case I had fixed it. The mower then proceeded to go into the unwired portion of the lawn into the driveway towards the street flashing "seek charge 26.7#" ???
Anyone ever have a runway bot or know what I might check?
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Well I patched the wire and set it loose and it doesn't ignore the wire. However in further testing it will consistently start and continue on if I disconnect the wire away from the base. The mower can be in the charger to start or in the yard it'll spin around wait, wait some more and then spin up the blade and take off.
No one else has a lawnbott and no one has an electric fence nearby so I'm kinda worried about runaway lawnbott :'(.
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What about if you totally unplug the power supply?
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Just tried it the bot reports no signal. I plugged it back in and it went off towards the boarder with some low bushes. Somehow hitting it at an angle as never before with the growth a little long and ended up somehow snagging a bit of bush and the wire! :o
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I am newer to the 3500, but from what I understand border issues was a major issue with the 3500 series, and one of the reasons I did not get one. But I believe - and basically I can attest to it 2 months into it, that this seems to have been solved by the 3510 series. Maybe an upgrade from 3500 to 3510 would help.
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I often see or hear that an upgrade be used to solve a problem with the Lawnbott. Will someone tell me why an upgrade should be used to solve a bad design or faulty part. In any other industry that i have worked with this would trigger a recall. Can you imagine Toyota telling there costumes that they need to do a upgrade to keep there cars from running away and out of control. How about Yogo upgrade?
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I agree.. The problem I am having is more along the lines of "learning a lesson". After spending a high amount on the initial investment, asking for another $800 to keep it working just seems insane to me. If I'm going to spend another $800, I'd rather put it toward another manufacturer's product. I'm already at the point where I have to say I was wrong for purchasing the LB3200. I did the hard work (research) upfront and thought I was buying the best product, but I was wrong. I learn from my mistakes and try not to make them again. The question is, do I dump the LB3200 and go back to what I've said I would never do again, and actually manually mow my lawn, or do I try another product?
How's that saying go? You screw me once, shame on you.. screw me twice, shame on me?
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I often see or hear that an upgrade be used to solve a problem with the Lawnbott. Will someone tell me why an upgrade should be used to solve a bad design or faulty part. In any other industry that i have worked with this would trigger a recall. Can you imagine Toyota telling there costumes that they need to do a upgrade to keep there cars from running away and out of control. How about Yogo upgrade?
All companies want to make their product obsolete so you have to upgrade but it's just a lawn the only way to do it is through product issues. Sure you'll lose some customers along the way but most won't want to go back to mowing their lawns for one reason or another but you'll still have enough that'll keep using it and a few more trickle in and they caught in the business plan.
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Sure you'll lose some customers along the way but most won't want to go back to mowing their lawns for one reason or another but you'll still have enough that'll keep using it and a few more trickle in and they caught in the business plan.
That works for a monopoly, but you have to remember.. There are a couple of other manufacturers available. I haven't done the research yet, but are their customers complaining as well?
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Sure you'll lose some customers along the way but most won't want to go back to mowing their lawns for one reason or another but you'll still have enough that'll keep using it and a few more trickle in and they caught in the business plan.
That works for a monopoly, but you have to remember.. There are a couple of other manufacturers available. I haven't done the research yet, but are their customers complaining as well?
It does indeed but I think the upgrade works too. Are the other mowers really that much better or trouble free? A few people don't have any problems with the lawnbott and there might be may more who just don't post about it. Could be my lawn and I'd hate to drop $2700 on another brand just to find that out if that $600 upgrade is enough. Just some thoughts going on in my head. I know my wife would never let me get a automower but she would let me upgrade the lawnbott for a higher cutting height. The law of the land here is the next mower will be a riding mower unless there are a few years of the lawnbott working with no problems and needs to be replaced due to the UPS guy accidently uturning in our lawn and squishing it.
I do remember back when I was with a small software company and people never really wanted to switch software just upgrade within their own financial application because they had already spend $$$$$ on it and at least they knew it's weaknesses. That and they couldn't let the higher ups know they chose the wrong software because it would be the end of them. For me it would be the end of not mowing my lawn that is for sure. It's lawnbott or nothing.
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What should you get for an upgrade, for any product.. An upgrade should indeed fix any past problems, but for sure should offer improvements other than just fixing past problems. If they have a defective part or design, as did Toyota, You go and lawnbott it should be recalled. It will be just a matter of time that the government will step in and force a recall. This you can count on, for every complaint there are at least 4 more costumers that don't complain, they just quite buying or using that product. Just look at the big companies that have gone out of business or close to it. K mart, Wards, Sears,W T Grants. All of these stopped carrying for there customers...
I don't want an upgrade, just give me one like they claim are running with no problems. When I have a trouble free mower i will shut my mouth, except to say what a good product it is. and I will holler just as loud as I do now.
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$600 upgrade is enough. Just some thoughts going on in my head.
That's the problem, with the current quality being as poor as it is, why would I trust them with another $800 for a product that is only 3 seasons old? If I was told that it would cost me $1,000 a year, there is no way I would have bought it. At the same time, if the $800 upgrade was from a company with a clean track record, I'd be more likely to do it. But, watching the LB3500 come out, and then
I don't want an upgrade, just give me one like they claim are running with no problems. When I have a trouble free mower i will shut my mouth, except to say what a good product it is. and I will holler just as loud as I do now.
Agreed. I'm finding it hard to believe there are so many LB3200's or LB3500's out there that are "trouble free". The reason I'm willing to say that is because of the market these are currently for. With the price tag, they draw the "geek" in people to buy them. How many robotics enthusiasts do you know that aren't active on the internet?
I think I'll call the museum in Wisconsin that I saw the Automower running at (which is what drove me to even look into robotic lawn mowers in the first place) and see what they have to say about the Automower, since it's on display cutting their lawn, I'm sure it gets a lot of use.
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That's the problem, with the current quality being as poor as it is, why would I trust them with another $800 for a product that is only 3 seasons old?
3 Seasons! I think I have half a season or so on my 3500 working and it looks worse than my dads 20 year old riding mower with the failed transmission he gave me. :(
If only chopper had gotten stuck by that tree like he keeps doing the night that od'd lady drove her caravan into it. Then i'd be able to use the insurance money and buy an automower ;D Now all I got is a torn up lawn. I don't think insurance is going to cover someone running over my mower in the street I"ll probably get a bill for whatever happens and hopefully no one gets hurt.
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And today it tried to send me to the hospital. Thankfull I was trying to be careful.
I picked it up and carried it into the workshop.
-Charging base disconnected for 24+ hours
-Transformer/Charger unplugged for 24+ hours
-Bot Out of zone.
-Thought the bot was off.
So I tilt it back to undo holding bolts on the front and I hear it beep. I put it back down and hit emergency stop and it turns off but reboots almost immediately. Press off and it seemed to stay off so I'm undoing the front bolts and no wheel movement and the blade motor comes on full power! Shut it down again and slowly open up the top and unscrew the battery to disconnect it. There was a little moisture in the back by the motherboard so maybe it was jumpering something but that was pretty scary. Need a raised platform and a covered garage someday to keep that flash flooding out of there where it shouldnt' be able to get.
So as always make sure you unplug your battery, which is the most pain in the neck thing possible on the 3500, before servicing the blade or anything. Plus be careful how you unscrew those front little nut/bolt things because I think I could easily get my hand in the path of that blade while turning them especially if the wheels are on the ground and spin up too.
There really should be a physical disconnect on the outside. Yeah we aren't the national electric drag racing association but that blade probably can do alot of permanent damage and the current connection is very difficult to get to.
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I had an issue recently with my 3500 not turning off, similar to what you described. Didn't matter how many times you pressed the "off" button, it would immediately reboot itself.
The keypad buttons seemed to work fine, you could feel them "click" when pressing the off/E stop button. Vishal sent out a new keypad and that solved the problem.
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There really should be a physical disconnect on the outside. Yeah we aren't the national electric drag racing association but that blade probably can do alot of permanent damage and the current connection is very difficult to get to.
I can't say for sure, but the LB3200 blade motor, from a spin up, probably wouldn't do much damage. The motor has such little torque that hitting your hand might cut you, but I doubt it would be deep. Of course, if it's spinning at 3000+ RPM.. that'd be another story.
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I had it leaning back so the wheels couldn't engage and as I was undoing those knobs up front the blade motor was at full speed. If I was undoing the knobs while the bot was able to move it might wheel forward and take my fingers or since it scared the $#@( out of me I could have moved my hand wrong when it was at full speed right into the blade.
It probably is safe as delivered and since _I_ removed the crappy blade guard that fell apart within ten minutes of use it would be my fault.
I'm just unnerved by the fact that I turned it off and it turned back on with the blade without any of it's equipment even plugged in. It is electronic so it'll do what it wants if something goes wrong but that plug to unplug it really shouldn't be do buried down there so I have to take the knobs off, pop the cover, undo the 4 battery screws, slide those two zip ties off that hold the motherboard into it's little hatch, slide the motherboard out and then unplug the battery all while the blade is spinning and the wheels might be turning.
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Sounds like you need a new Mother Board. Is it still under warranty? If so, go for it!!
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Sounds like you need a new Mother Board. Is it still under warranty? If so, go for it!!
If the motherboard was replaced during hte 2009 recall and extended the warrantee it may be under warranty. Otherwise I think I'm outta luck.
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To those of you having trouble with your mowers - I am truly sorry.
Please note, the car industry has 100 years up on the robot mower industry and they have made many millions of cars, so they've had lots more practice. It really isn't fair to compare the car industry to the robot mower industry when none of the regular mower players are even in the game (like John Deere for example). Does Husqvarna count? I don't know - no experience with them.
As I have said, we have many customers whom we never hear from. Today a customer ordered pegs and wire to expand his lawn. The LB3500 was purchased two years ago. I don't know when it was installed, last year maybe? Anyway, today I received this comment from the customer:
"Thank you for the rapid ship of the 1000' of perimeter and pegs. I have been pleased with my mower (still am)."
So I am sure the other ones I have not heard from are very happy. I don't know why problems seem to follow some people and not others. For that, I have no explanation.
Hang in there, you folks that have problems. If you purchased your mower from us, you have our full unlimited support at no additional cost except parts and labor as required. If you did not purchase your mower from us you can obtain our services at a fair cost. Contact us for details.
Sincerely, RobotLady
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Last year my 3500 was having difficulty returning to the charging base. I would have to make sure that it was back in it's dog house/base every night. Well, one night I was tired and forgot to check. The next morning I found it in a corner of my front yard, right over a sprinkler head. It got a very bad soaking - it had paused itself - think the error was out of border - I tried to push the off button but the darn thing did not turn off. So I lifted it onto my driveway, pushed the emergency off button several times but received no response. I then unplugged the power supply to the yard, and proceeded to tilt the bot back to unscrew the two front bolts just like you - and just like you I almost lost my fingers. It would only do it when I lifted it above 30 degrees. I left it there for 12 hours and worked on it again after work.
I unscrewed the bolt with the bot on it's wheels. Once the shell came off, I realized what the problem was - the darn thing was flooded from the sprinkler - the entire motherboard and rear wheel motors where under water. I unplugged the battery, dried up everything, and tried to restart it the next day ---- no good. I ended up having to send the bot back to Vishal for replacements of the motherboard and motors.
In regards to this "upgrade" - I've had mine done - thinking that the extra height would allow me better ammunition to fight off bermuda grass in my fescue. Also thought the other things were better also. Well, I am wishing I did not upgrade as my bot is having "out of boarder" signals throughout my yard - VERY infuriating. I have buried Comcast cables that apparently interferes with both A and B signals. To this day my wife has to run out to the yard several times a day to restart the dang bot. So... even an "upgrade" may not solve all your problems. I am still left in the dark as to what to do with my bot ---- I think I've spent well over $4500.... again thinking, if I get the signal booster, the extra batteries, or the upgrades, they would help it maintain my yard as I imagined it would....
Oh well... I guess this is another ranting post
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You know I'm not sure what happened in the early days of the automobile. Say baker electric had some problem with their charger blowing did they repair it because it was the right thing to do and/or to keep the customer happy? Maybe they did make the person buy a new charger for their automobile or a new battery if a cell went bad. What did ford do?
Now in todays corporate world I wonder if it wasn't for all the consumer protection agencies, safety agencies, highway commissions and the like if companies would be so quick to recall.
I wonder if there isn't already some agency that would frown upon not comformaly coating, otherwise properly waterproofing or providing an external power disconnect on a designed to be run outdoor forever appliance that has the nasty side affect of trying to cut off your finger (or worse) like it did with myself and roninwar. Well at least I know I'm not the only person that has happened to. I wonder how many more out there might have experienced the same thing and when if we'll really get shutdown or new regulations will shut it down when someone does get cut.
While the following is a generous offer I'm not sure what it does for those of us "unlucky few". We have a bot that won't work in our situation and new parts or labor is exactly what hasn't helped the situation for years and seems to make it worse for some :(
"Hang in there, you folks that have problems. If you purchased your mower from us, you have our full unlimited support at no additional cost except parts and labor as required. If you did not purchase your mower from us you can obtain our services at a fair cost. Contact us for details. "
My biggest mistake will always be not sending it back during the trial period and instead getting the upgrade and another trial at the end of the season where the grass was already dead and I couldn't actually trial it at all.
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trying to cut off your finger (or worse) like it did with myself and roninwar. Well at least I know I'm not the only person that has happened to. I wonder how many more out there might have experienced the same thing and when if we'll really get shutdown or new regulations will shut it down when someone does get cut.
Let's be realistic here. Remember, this _IS_ a lawn mower! Google "lawn mower accidents" and tell me what you find (about 130,000 results). Just because they are small "autonomous" robots doesn't mean they can't kill you. But, so can a push mower! And to be honest, you probably have a better chance getting hurt by a push mower than the lawnbott. That is, if you didn't have to repair it every other day.. If it worked as advertised, your maintenance would be minimal which would reduce the chance of you getting hurt to begin with, but that's another topic.
Someone has been cut, that was the reason for the recall. They picked the bot up and the blade didn't stop. Personally, my response would be to paint the shell yellow with black stripes and put a picture of a guy getting his fingers chopped off with a big warning that says "THIS CAN KILL YOU". But the lawnbott isn't any more dangerous than any other mower.
Here's your fix: STEP 1: Remove blade..
Problem solved.
Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's OK that this has happened, just that either way, it's not a toy and should be handled as such.
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"Here's your fix: STEP 1: Remove blade."
Ok so I was trying to remove my blade or are you saying we should permanently remove our blades, or never install them, so it never happens? Hey the way mine works it may be the safest route and only way it'll last through warrantee 8)
If you are saying remove the blade for service that is exactly where the problem lies. Imagine I turned off my bott and flipped it over or back to remove the blade then it decided to start up like it did when I was removing the cover. If the blade it turning on automatically when the bot was turned off anything else might not be working well and it might starts shaving finger tips off. Next time my bot it working maybe I'll try making a salad and seeing what it'll cut and what it won't.
I have to admit I have replaced the blade without disconnecting the battery when I first got my 3200. I actually am pretty sure it was alot easier to get into the 3200 and disconnect the battery then the 3500 but the blade never turned on suddenly while working on my 3200 so it didn't burn into my mind so permanently.
Compared to most types of mowers I've worked on it seems alot more dangerous
Riding or push lawn mowers with a gas engine. You pull the spark plug wire and the battery lead which is located no where near the blade and guess what? it's dead!
Riding or push lawn mower with electric motors.
- Battery Powered: Some mowers you simply twist something and pull the battery out. One I have I undo 6 screws on top of the mower to get to the battery if I wanted to extra safe because there is a positive mechanical switch that will disconnect it but with a blade backed by a few hp you can't be too safe.
- Plug in: Unplug it where the plug is located no where near the blade
Lawnbott 3500 (and I assume 3510)
-Turn it off. Never expect it to be off always expect the blade or wheel to turn on without notice!!!
-Grab the rear handle and flip it over on it's top so it can't creep forward if the blade and wheels decides to turn on
-Carefully undo the knobs under the front of the bott putting your hand within inches or less of a blade and expect it to turn on at any second. Resist the temptation to turn it off again if it does or do so very carefully by spinning the bott around on it's top if you must.
-Still while fully expecting the blades to turn on or already having them on and wheels spinning hold the lid down to the ground while carefully flipping the bottom part of the bott back and hold it steady with one hand because it will fall back towards you and you may instinctively try to grab it if it falls which could be bad with the blade spinning.
-Unscrew the 4 screws holding the battery down and lean the battery on the blade motor so it doesn't pull on the wires to the mother board
- Turn the two screws holding the zip ties heads that hold the mother board in it's slot
- Slowly pull the motherboard out
- Unplug the battery from the mother board
Your bott is now disabled and you can safely remove the blade and change it or perform any maintenance.
Maybe the spinning blade turning on right in my face after turning it off has biased me but it seems there should be someway to design a positive disconnection or way to get to the battery that isn't so involved in the vicinity of the spinning blade.
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safest route and only way it'll last through warrantee
Good luck with that!
If you are saying remove the blade for service that is exactly where the problem lies.
That is correct. If you were in the process of removing the blade when it spun up (again, I'm taking the blade motor specs of the LB3200 into account, as I don't know the specifics on the 3500 series) you can hold the motor from spinning up without a problem. They have no torque. I'm not suggesting you do that, but they spin up slowly without any torque, so it's not going to instantly spin up to 3000 RPM and lop a finger off, it'll hit you, maybe produce a cut, and stop. Probably producing a blade motor error.
If you were holding the blade to remove the screws, I doubt it would even be able to spin.
I actually am pretty sure it was alot easier to get into the 3200
Correct, the 3200 is very easy to disconnect. Two charge posts to remove the cover, 4 screws to remove the inside cover, and everything is done on the top side of the bot, never getting near the blade. I've always disconnected the battery because it will fall out when turning it over if you don't.
Maybe the spinning blade turning on right in my face after turning it off has biased me but it seems there should be someway to design a positive disconnection or way to get to the battery that isn't so involved in the vicinity of the spinning blade.
I'm not saying I disagree, I'm just saying everyone should approach all lawn items designed to cut with caution. If I had to choose, I'd pick a more reliable, better designed bot over a kill switch because their circuit design and programming is shoddy.
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Maybe the spinning blade turning on right in my face after turning it off has biased me but it seems there should be someway to design a positive disconnection or way to get to the battery that isn't so involved in the vicinity of the spinning blade.
I'm not saying I disagree, I'm just saying everyone should approach all lawn items designed to cut with caution. If I had to choose, I'd pick a more reliable, better designed bot over a kill switch because their circuit design and programming is shoddy.
Maybe I'm old fashiond but I'm thinking oh access like you had with the 3200 or some physical waterproof connector you could disconnect physically if they want to make it so impossible to get to the battery connector. Circuit from them *rofl*
Actually there may already be a circuit in there. They have an off button and a seperate Emergency Stop button. I always thought it was the same but maybe the emergency stop button is like hitting off twice ::)
As you mentioned the most important thing is to respect that and any blade or cutting/crushing device motorized or otherwise.