Paradise Robotics Forum
Robotic Lawnmowers => Lawnbott => Topic started by: shep874 on October 01, 2010, 06:41:15 AM
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I have just replaced the 4th receiving board. Any body else having this problem? I am thinking that I have a much larger yard than most, (football size + back yard) smaller front yard and two ditches 100 X 40. You can see my yard on a previous post How Do You Torture your bott. My Billie would operate okay up to 15 to 20 foot from the wire and than come up with no signal. I am guessing that most Bott owners never get over 20 foot from the wire and therefore never have this problem.
Solving the no signal problem has proven very depressing. Each time I have had this problem I have been told to check every thing except is there a signal and how strong is it. I am far from a electronic genius or engineer but It seems to me that the very first thing to check is, is there a signal and how strong is it.
If they have a receiving board that picks up a signal, then there has to be a instrument that one could use to check if there in fact there is a signal and how strong is it.
Anybody know of one that is affordable.
Not sure of the cost of these boards but assuming not cheap. If this usage continues, I will not be able to keep My Billie around.
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I also have a very large yard.
Which bot do you have?
I have a 3500 which I have updated earlier this year - with the bigger wheel, ect.
Part of that upgrade was the new cover with the rubber bumper - I was getting a lot of no signals until, out of frustration, I ripped off the bumper - it's been working flawlessly for the last several months.
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FWIW, I have an updated 3500 series as well. In my yard I have spots where the bot will get about 50-70 feet from the border and haven't had the problems you have described.
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roninwar I have a 3210 just updated to it... they replaced the board and that at least for a bit of time cured the no signal....Today I light him up to show some customers and I he is back to doing the same thing.... depressing.... tell me what bumper you are referring to...
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the rubber bumper at the front of the shell.
I tore the pins holding it off and the front of the top shell has these holes in it... no big deal, but it works great now.
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Surely it is just a coincidence, right? I can't imagine how the two are related.
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Rubber is inert and non conductive. The problem had to be caused by something else. Was anything else changed at the same time?
Folks, I want to point out a "no signal" problem can be caused by many different things. Of all the Lawnbott problems that can happen, I rank it as the worst one because it is difficult to solve. Here is the list of possible causes:
*1) Loose wire
*2) Wire too long
*3) Distance is too far between wires (if "no signal" occurs in the same place in the yard all the time, this could be the cause)
*4) Loose connection between transmitter and base
5) Loose connection between power supply and transmitter
6) Loose connection between perimeter wire and base
*7) Loose connection at wire splice in yard
*8) Bad transmitter
9) Bad power supply
*10) Receiver card loose in robot
*11) Receiver card problem
12) Motherboard problem
*13) Disturbance filter/signal booster remove/add
The ones with the * are the ones I've helped customers with. Others are possible but I have not had to deal
with them yet. Most often it is caused by a problem with the wire (loose or bad connection). We always recommend
soldering the connections. BTW - Changing the receiver card can sometimes fix it, but this does not mean the original
receiver card was bad. The original card would likely work on someone else's yard, like one with a shorter wire.
Removing the disturbance filter and/or adding the signal booster sometimes solves the problem. We had one case
where changing to a different style of blade motor solved the problem.
It's a safety feature to have Lawnbott detect the signal all over the yard (keeps it from running out of the border),
but personally, I think Zucchetti should re-think their strategy and/or only do that for small yards.
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The only thing I see that might have been missed is the fact that with radio signals, you never know what else is out there. Could be that some are having repeated issues because of something near their house. We know the signal used causes interference with AM radio signals. Could a neighbor have something that also runs near the range of the Lawnbott? Or, even worse, something intermittent that may be interfering with it? Like, the device that some meter readers use? That's just off the top of my head, I have no idea what frequencies those devices use, it's just an example. What about if you have a HAM operator a few blocks away and it happens when they are transmitting on a specific channel? Again, just guesses, but that is part of the problem with troubleshooting something that is invisible.
Just for conversation, shep874, have you tried waiting a day, pulling the receiver board and plugging it back in? Just to see if your bot begins to behave as if you had replaced it? It might show that the only reason new boards appear to fix the issues is because of the downtime involved waiting for the new board, or just the process of swapping boards.. in other words, whatever was causing your problem is gone by the time you fire your bot back up or the process of replacing the board is resetting something.
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well, whatever is the source, for me, pulling off the bumper made a difference - similar to some people's experience with removing the entire shell off the 3200 a few years ago. I did not mess with the wiring, nor anything changed = 4 months of flawless work.
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Well, he has a 3200 series mower, that doesn't have a bumper. But, pulling the lid off wouldn't hurt for a test.
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well, whatever is the source, for me, pulling off the bumper made a difference - similar to some people's experience with removing the entire shell off the 3200 a few years ago. I did not mess with the wiring, nor anything changed = 4 months of flawless work.
Was under the shell dirty at all? I wonder what is in that bumper. If it has some metal in it and it looks like it is connected by almost a dozen metal connectors. Maybe it is acting as an antenna for other things or interfering it seems possibly though I don't know how to check it. I don't recall alot of problems pre-bumper with losing signal but it appears to be happening alot more now.
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prior to removing the bumper, I had to take the shell off to run diagnostics - so yes, the underside was clean.
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Someone please tell me. Why anyone should spend $3500 + on a bott so we can set around guessing what is wrong withe the damm thing. It is the Manufacturers responsibility of any product to provide answers to any problems that may occur. Sure thing go wrong but it should not be the consumers responsibility to diagnose and fix problems.. The consumers responsibility is to install as per directions, maintain as per directions, and enjoy as advertised...
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prior to removing the bumper, I had to take the shell off to run diagnostics - so yes, the underside was clean.
Cool that eliminates that issue. When you pulled off the bumper didn't you notice if the metal fasteners were going into a metal strip inside the rubber bumper? I guess I'll find out soon enough.
I just fixed a wiring issue in my perimeter caused by Verizon FIOS so I'm going to see if my problem continues. If it does I'll on the spot remove the bumper carefully and see if it works. If it works for a day or two I'll put the bumper back on and see if it comes back.
For the OP with the 3210 so the signal board works for a while then stops working 20ft from the wire? Any change to put in something like a few peninsulas to keep the wire close even when it is out in the middle? I wouldn't think you would have to. If it works on day one it should continue to work. I have an acre with a tiny house in the middle, a solar water heater out back and a rose garden out front. It is mostly all grass but there probably isn't anywhere that the bot is too far from the wire in the current configuration. When my 3510 gets no signaled it usually is a few feet from the wire so probably a completely different issue. I thought my 3200 had done a complete breakout runaway once and was a long way from wire. My 3510 did a breakout ealier this year and had just stopped in the driveway with no signal. I thought it was just luck but maybe it was a feature.
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The only thing I see that might have been missed is the fact that with radio signals, you never know what else is out there...
You are absolutely right. The bot operates in the unlicensed frequency range. That means anything nearby in the same frequency range has the potential to interfere with the signal. However, although Lawnbott's signal is low voltage, it has to be strong enough to be detected by the robot over the entire yard. In most cases, Lawnbott's signal will be stronger than a potentially interfering signal.
You might ask, "why don't they get a license?" The answer is, because that costs billions so a product has to be in the 10's-100's of millions sold per year before that will happen.
I've been racking my brain for a better way the robot could navigate than using the wire and cannot come up with anything that meets cost and performance requirements better than a wire. The down side is, without a licensed frequency, there is always a risk of interference between the robot and something else. Since most people don't have interference problems, overall the interference risk is small.
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FWIW, I have an updated 3500 series as well. In my yard I have spots where the bot will get about 50-70 feet from the border and haven't had the problems you have described.
Hi Botman Could give me the configuration of your yard. What I am looking for is the distance you bott would be from the other three perimeter wires.Thanks fell free to e-mail me at melschappert@gmail.com
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Mel
My back yard is roughly 180 feet x 100 feet square, so in the middle it is about 50 ft to 90 ft from the border. Recently I had blackout errors in the middle. Turned off the power supply, amplifier, disconnected the filter for about a minute. Everything has been working fine since. Fingers crossed...
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We've also noticed that powering the transmitter and power supply down and back up will clear signal errors. It seems the circuits decide to "go out to lunch". It makes me think there's probably a microprocessor in the transmitter that requires a periodic reset.